Election season is upon us, and some Wyoming voters are skeptical of how votes are tallied in the state. Lawmakers passed a bill during the recent budget session that requires county clerks to hand count some of this year's election results.
Wyoming Public Radio’s Jordan Uplinger spoke with Laramie County Clerk Debra Lee to see how one county is gearing up for the task.
Editor’s Note: This conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.
Jordan Uplinger: During the session, the Legislature passed a bill requiring county clerks to audit, by hand, about 5% of all ballots cast in their county for this year's primary elections. Can you talk about how Laramie County specifically is preparing for that effort?
Debra Lee: We are part of an association of county clerks, and the county clerks have been working on this very subject. We did a training session and looked at different ways to hand count, and we'll be coming up with standard operating procedures. We have included in our budget the staff required to do this. We're planning.
JU: When you say it's in your budget, is this an unusually expensive endeavor, or is this something that you guys are kind of expecting?
DL: This is a new thing. It's a new element. We aren't sure how long counting will take. We've kind of made a projection on how many people might be required. And yeah, we will be also reporting all these expenses to the Legislature when we're finished. Each county is going to prepare a report for the Joint Corporations, Elections, and Political Subdivision Committee.
JU: Is there any currently, maybe like special elections or smaller internal elections, is there anything else where you are already practicing hand counting ballots?
DL: Not in Laramie County. However, Albany County did just have a special election, and it's my understanding they will be doing this hand count.
This is a special piece of legislation. It's not codified, and it only pertains to the 2026 primary and general elections. But Albany plans to do a hand count audit just to see how it works.
JU: There's been a lot of pressure from [some] lawmakers' constituents to make this a priority over the interim, and I'm wondering if you're hearing that same kind of concern. Are people calling? Are they writing emails saying, "I'm worried about this election," or, "I have confidence?” What's your experience?
DL: In Laramie County we are not hearing that. On the contrary, we're hearing they have confidence.
JU: People are reaching out to reaffirm their confidence, or just [in] passing conversation, you're getting the idea that people are confident?
DL: It's some of both, Jordan, really. I mean, we are hearing emails and phone calls and people stopping me in the office or on the street, very complimentary of the way we do things in Laramie County.
JU: How does this election compare to other states and how they go about ensuring accurate ballots?
DL: Elections in the U.S. are very decentralized, so it's really all over the map. Some states have quite onerous requirements, others not so much. And some places it's down to the municipality, that they're the ones that actually administer the election. So it really is all over the map.
But I want to go back to this particular audit.
This will be our third post election audit that county clerks do, because we already have in place two post election audits. One is an equipment audit that takes place after each election, and the other one is checking the accuracy of how the equipment tabulated a ballot. We look at an image of a ballot as it was cast by the voter and compare that to how that ballot was tabulated.
This particular audit that we'll be doing this time, the 5%, this will be the third post election audit that county clerks will be performing.
JU: Are you expecting the results of the hand count to be dramatically different from the machine tabulators?
DL: We expect they will be matching, if not extremely close to the machine count.
JU: Going back maybe five years, seven years, what was the general feeling of county clerks and the local voting population about elections?
DL: Previously I don't think, honestly, people paid that much attention to elections. They went and they voted, and they trusted the results. There wasn't all this interest in and people wanting to know more about them: How do they function? What does the clerk do? How do you do this? How do you do that? What happens if a voter's in this situation? There are many more questions now, and curiosity.
JU: On this note and looking forward, Sen. Tara Nethercott (R-Cheyenne) had mentioned we've [the Legislature] looked into this during this session, we've looked into this in the prior session. Do you see hand counts or security measures continuing on in the future? Do you think that this will change people's opinions moving forward?
DL: I don't have a crystal ball, but this audit will give us some good data, most definitely. And that is the purpose of it, to look at what the results are and also, as well, how much time does it take, how much does it cost.
JU: With each, at least, major general election, [nationally] we are seeing more and more people participate. The number is kind of steadily growing over time. There's more active voters. And I'm wondering if you think a consequence of a more involved electorate is that they also might be more curious, more skeptical?
DL: Yes. More people are involved and engaged. And people who do step up and put their name forward to be an election judge or to help out with elections, they are so shocked at how much is involved, how much work is involved in it, and all the checks and balances and the things that are required to do to make this happen in order for people to exercise their right to vote.
I'd like to add on that audit, what I've seen from colleagues around the country that have done a similar hand count audit, they said it has satisfied people on the integrity of the voting equipment and the reliability and accuracy of it.
This reporting was made possible by a grant from the Corporation For Public Broadcasting, supporting state government coverage in the state. Wyoming Public Media and Jackson Hole Community Radio are partnering to cover state issues both on air and online.
