As the Trump administration, the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) and Congress reshape federal funding, public radio has been in the news alongside national parks, public health and the National Weather Service. A few months ago, when Trump first proposed clawing back funds from public media, we asked Wyoming Public Media’s general manager, Christina Kyzmych, to talk us through how the station is funded. She’s back with updates and to share how changes and probes at the federal level are affecting your public radio station. Christina spoke with Wyoming Public Radio’s news director, Kamila Kudelska.

Editor’s Note: This conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.

Kamila Kudelska:  The last time you were on the show, the Trump administration had just drafted a memo, which outlined its intent to end federal funding for public media. Since then, a lot has happened, and it's been in two realms.

First, Trump issued an executive order (EO) for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, or CPB, to cut NPR [National Public Radio] and PBS [Public Broadcasting Service] funding. That order was paused after NPR and three affiliate stations sued Trump on the executive order. So where does this stand, and why didn't it immediately go into effect like Trump's other EOs?

Christina Kuzmych: Well, it's in limbo right now. President Trump's executive order hit several walls right out of the gate, and the public broadcasting system had no legal mechanism by which to follow that order.

The EO directed the Corporation for Public Broadcasting to cease federal funding for NPR and PBS based on ideological biases, and there were two problems there. Ceasing federal funding for NPR and PBS is not something the president can do. That falls under the jurisdiction of Congress. Congress can vote to defund public broadcasting. The president can recommend, but he can't wave a magic wand and say you are hereby defunded. So that's sent it directly into limbo.

Now, the second problem with the EO was that it was based on ideological bias, and there he ran into the First Amendment. The Supreme Court has ruled numerous times over the decades that the government does not have the right to determine what counts as biased.

So both NPR and PBS filed separate lawsuits citing violation of First Amendment rights. CPB filed a separate lawsuit going back to when President Trump fired three of their board members, and these lawsuits are weaving their way through the system.

KK: How would Wyoming Public Media be affected if the EO did go through?

CK: We would lose one, our CPB direct grant and the indirect national interconnectivity and services that CPB provides. That would affect our ability to purchase programming and create programming like Wyoming Sounds.

KK: The second part that has been going on is Trump has asked Congress to take back money that's already been appropriated to CPB for the next two years. CPB, of course, provides partial funding to NPR and PBS. The House has passed that, and now we're waiting to see how the Senate will vote. How much money is at stake for Wyoming Public Media?

CK: We're talking about immediate funding of $400,000. It sits in the [U.S. Department of the] Treasury. In fact, the money that we're talking about now in Congress, these two years that he's clawing back, that is already money that is in the Treasury. It's waiting to be used and that we use immediately.

We buy, for example, NPR programming, National Native News programming, BBC programming and several other vendors from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting money.

And then indirect funding for our music rights, our streaming rights, satellite interconnectivity, emergency alert system operations. So it's in two bundles. One is direct, that's immediate, and the other one would be long lasting.

KK: How so?

CK: If you are planning a music program, you have to know in advance that you're going to have the funding to do it. If you're going to build out a satellite system or fix a transmitter, you have to know that you have the money to do it. So that affects you several years down the line. That's one of the reasons why public broadcasting is forward funded for two years, to give it a chance to plan these large projects that serve the public.

KK: What's the timeline with the Senate?

CK: The Senate Appropriations Committee will hold a hearing on June 25 on the rescission package. But the deadline for the passage in the Senate is July 18 for the rescission to take effect.

KK: $400,000 is what percentage of our budget at the station?

CK: That's 13% of our operating budget. It's not much, but it's the thing that holds it together in many respects.

KK: CPB funds only make up 13% of WPM’s budget, where does the rest of the station's funding come from?

CK: We get money from the university, from donors, individuals, from corporations in underwriting and in grants.

KK: A CPB grant also directly covers our two statehouse reporters. Where does that grant stand? Is that affected at all?

CK: At this time, we have been told by CPB that that grant is not affected by the rescission, which is good because it will allow us to continue reporting on the state Legislature.

KK: Have you heard more from our listeners or anyone from Wyoming? Last time you were on, you talked a little bit about what people have been telling us.

CK: Oh, yes. The listeners are very vocal about their frustration about this situation and the overall situation of defunding all kinds of organizations that serve the public. So it isn't just us.

Listeners can't understand why, for example, their music is affected, why their cultural programming is affected, why anyone would want to even defund a service that serves and connects Wyoming. They just don't get it. They think it's petty and misguided.

Not everybody gets the point about bias in news reporting. Bias is in the ear and in the eye of the listener and the viewer. So it's kind of hard to pinpoint just exactly what Congress is talking about. Some listeners have cited what they saw in congressional hearings, and a lot of questions that we got centered on the fact that some of the congresspeople or the lawmakers on these congressional committees would accuse NPR and PBS of bias, but when asked if they saw the show or heard the program, they didn't know anything about it. So it was a little disingenuous, and listeners caught on to that.

KK: Is there anything else you'd want to add?

CK: We're going through a process now. We don't know what it will end up as. We are very, very thrilled to have so much support among our listeners. The listeners have really gotten on board and defended this, as well as all the other organizations in Wyoming that are suffering right now and not knowing their fate.

To stay up to date with this story, check out WPM’s General Manager Update page.