We’ve been hearing about some things heading back toward normal at this stage in the pandemic, including how much money Americans borrow.

New data from the credit-reporting firm Equifax shows demand for credit cards, personal and auto loans, and leases was up nearly 40% in April compared to this time last year. And it’s an increase of more than 10% since April of 2019.

Host Callum Borchers speaks with MSNBC anchor and economics correspondent Ali Velshi.

This article was originally published on WBUR.org.

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