Yale Professor Stephen Skowronek says there have been presidents like George W. Bush before -- he calls them orthodox innovators. But then things tend to go wrong. Professor Skowronek and author James Mann take a historical look at the Bush presidency.

Guests:

Stephen Skowronek, professor of political and social science at Yale University; his article on the Bush presidency appeared in the December issue of the journal Perspectives on Politics

James Mann, author, Rise of the Vulcans: The History of Bush's War Cabinet; author in residence at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies

Copyright 2022 NPR. To see more, visit https://www.npr.org.